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I don't think it's as polished as the Lindsey Rant. There may be one more rant after this.
A. Cavemen and Astronauts
I like Ilyria when she's not moping about her lack of power. I didn't hate Fred, but I didn't love the long, drawn out dying. Or the "Winifred" thing.
I liked Gunn's role in all of it, and I think it's clear that Sparrow was acting strictly as a cultist, and that W&H did not specify that Gunn was to have the short term version of a brain update. In fact, the Senior Partners may have specified that he have the permanent version, and Sparrow double crossed them.
Gunn goes to talk to the conduit. Anyone know when it came back? Was there any reason it / the Senior Partners might not know that the Evil Plan was to bring Ilyria back at the point where Gunn talked to the conduit?
If they knew at that point, it made no sense for the conduit to refuse to help. The Senior Partners -- the Wolf, Ram, and Hart -- don't want Ilyria manifesting.
Note that this fact explains an otherwise baffling Eve scene. Remember that the Senior Partners seem to have no trouble finding her despite the protective symbols. Remember that Eve later says that she can only access information when the Senior Partners want her to do so.
This explains why she insists she knows nothing, why she reads clean to Lorne, and why, less than a minute later, she suddenly has information. The Senior Partners knew exactly where she was and gave her access to the knowledge they wanted Angel to have.
This may even explain the Conduit's treatment of Gunn. The Senior Partners have other ways to get information to Angel. They're probably a mite ticked at Gunn, since Gunn let Ilyria's sarcophagus in, and they don't want Ilyria around. And they probably don't mind the psychological torment he's undergoing.
The biggest problem was the dumb explanation of why Angel can't save Fred. He takes a 4 hour flight to the Well and is told that, with the sarcophagus, Ilyria could be drawn back, but would go through everyone in between sarcophagus and well, killing them. As Angel accepts responsibility for dooming Fred, it would presumably have been possible to make an 8 hour round trip before she died.
If that is indeed the case, why not bring Fred too? Or, given the caveman / astronaut theme, why not fly the sarcophagus directly above the Well? Or below it, as it runs through the Earth? I'm not saying the writers couldn't have set up believably the no-win situation they wanted, just that they didn't. And it would have helped if Angel's dialogue and actions set up the idea of his having actually betrayed Fred better.
B. The Wolf, the Ram, and the Hart
Okay, so Ilyria is here. And I liked a lot of the acting. I liked the little nod Gunn gave when Wesley stabbed him. I don't quite get what it was Gunn was signing, since he clearly wasn't being fired. Unless he was, but the writers changed their minds. Similarly, I thought that Wesley and Ilyria were going off together to work on her being human, with nary a word to Angel, and I thought that was neat. But, I digress.
Ilyria is dismissive of the Wolf, Ram, and Hart, for she remembers them before they became so powerful. They do not like that she is incarnate again, and, as I recall, Hamilton deliberately gives Wesley a hint about depowering an Ilyria about to go critical.
The problem is that it doesn't go anywhere from there. I find this unsatisfying. Here's an outline of what I would have liked.
Gunn is in a hell dimension because it's much easier to get beaten up than to put in hard, thankless work that contributes to The Cause, knowing it can never excuse what one has done. But that's a separate rant, and I digress. And Gunn's reaction to Hamilton's attempted bribe -- and the Gunn-Angel scene where Angel says that, yes, he does have to ask what Gunn did -- are both beautiful. I do wonder what the heck the point of Hamilton's offer to Gunn was, apart from showing the audience that Gunn won't make the same mistake twice is. I mean, the Senior Partners had no reason to think Gunn would accept after what happened to Fred, but okay, maybe they figured the pain would change Gunn's mind. Still, I am tempted to conclude that Hamilton made the offer so that Gunn would reject it. No textual support for that interpretation, I know.
Then, Ilyria rescues Gunn. I'm not sure I like the solution, but okay. It was a cool scene. Hamilton fumes about the damage Ilyria did in this pocket dimension and how much it's costing the LA branch of Wolfram and Hart.
At face value, I don't know if that makes sense. It didn't seem as if anything in that dimension got permanently destroyed. Perhaps Wolfram and Hart are annoyed that Gunn was released. They're almost certainly non-plussed that Ilyria's active on Angel's behalf.
Later, Hamilton tells Wesley outright that Wolfram and Hart don't want Ilyria there and gives him a hint for his Very Big Gun. I wonder if the hint was intended to help depower Ilyria, as Wesley did, or to kill her. I favor the killing her explanation.
I do wonder why Ilyria-in-Fred was so unstable. After all, Knox chose Fred as a vessel because she was so perfect. Could he have dealt with the problems Ilyria was facing? If not, it kind of makes him an idiot. If so, you'd think Angel & Co might find out how. And were Knox and Sparrow the only Ilyria cultists out there?
But, the main point is that the Senior Partners consider Ilyria a threat. What if this is because she actually knew something useful about them, something even my version of Lindsey didn't know? Ilyria and Lindsey could pool information to fight the Wolf, Ram, and Hart.
It is at this point that I fail to resist the urge to bring gender politics into my rant, on at least a superficial level.
1. Stomped Females
There's been some discussion about Ilyria getting depowered and then stomped by Hamilton. Is it because Ilyria's a woman? Yes, I know Ilyria's a god, a king, as much male or neuter as female, but the body is female.
I think this does matter, but that plot needs matter more. That is, Ilyria must get depowered. Otherwise, she becomes Walking Plot Device Lass. And Hamilton beats her up to give her motivation to help Angel that Angel will trust.
But the specifics could have been handled better. One wonders why Hamilton didn't simply kill Ilyria. One wonders why Ilyria's cultists wanted to have her inhabit a human body, if such is unstable.
I would have preferred if Ilyria had kept her powers until the fight with Hamilton. He could have spent time trying to get Angel and crew to destroy her. They could have spent time trying to pump her about Wolfram and Hart. Then, Hamilton shoots her with the Big Gun. It's intended to kill her, but only drains her. This is either because someone saves her, someone modified the gun earlier, or even weakened Ilyria can manage to destroy the gun. I prefer the last, as it shows that even a weakened Ilyria is not to be trifled with.
Then, Ilyria and Lindsey pool information, and Angel's Secret Plan to go after the Wolf, Ram, and Hart themselves goes into action.
2. Irredeemable Males
This is mostly pure rant rather than what-should-have-happened.
If you want the benefit of the doubt on Angel, your odds are better if you're female.
The odds aren't perfect. Women do die on the show. But they are more likely to be given a second chance when they act evilly.
The obvious first season contrast is Faith and Lindsey. The fifth season is Ilyria and Lindsey. Or Eve and Lindsey. Or Harmony and Lindsey.
Lindsey, we are told, is utterly irredeemable. Lorne says so, and it's not like his track record's bad. Oh wait, yes it is, especially in 5th season. Well, Angel says so, and he -- has an even worse track record.
Oh, but Lindsey's different from Eve, Ilyria, and Harmony. He's got a soul! Not like Harmony. He ought to know better.
Angel also has a soul. By his own admission, he's done more evil than Lindsey. He's backslid, as Angel, not Angelus, more than once. Indeed, the show practically depends on his being a nincompoop over and over. But, he's the star, so he's redeemable. I guess that's fair.
And, it is true that Harmony can't help herself. She doesn't have a soul. She can't reform. So, why does Angel let her go, but have Lindsey killed? Killing Lindsey is killing a human being. Killing Harmony is killing a soulless demon.
Unlike Eve, Lindsey is not a puppet for the Senior Partners to use at whim. Well, actually, Eve isn't one either, usually. And, her freely chosen actions are, well, those that support Lindsey. And herself. I don't see why she's more redeemable. Maybe she's just incompetent on her own, so it doesn't matter. After all, if I'd set up the assassination of someone's lover, it wouldn't strike me as bright to do what amounts to admitting, if not outright boasting, about it, and then turn my back on the person, offering to lead her out of the collapsing building.
And Ilyria killed lots of folks, but she has a certain innocence even so, unlike Jasmine. Oh, wait, Angel was willing to give Jasmine another chance. Actually, I understand that. Jasmine was, in her own way, trying to create a better world. Her motives weren't like Ilyria's motives for wanting to help Angel against Wolfram and Hart. Ilyria wanted to avenge her wounded pride on folks who were, at best, indirectly related to her getting beaten up, but hey, any chance to kick butt's a good chance. Sure, Ilyria might get bored of fighting on the side of good some day, but let's cross that bridge when we get to. Let's not prejudge this god in a woman's body.
Lindsay's stated reasons for helping Angel, after all, were so much less altruistic, right?
A. Cavemen and Astronauts
I like Ilyria when she's not moping about her lack of power. I didn't hate Fred, but I didn't love the long, drawn out dying. Or the "Winifred" thing.
I liked Gunn's role in all of it, and I think it's clear that Sparrow was acting strictly as a cultist, and that W&H did not specify that Gunn was to have the short term version of a brain update. In fact, the Senior Partners may have specified that he have the permanent version, and Sparrow double crossed them.
Gunn goes to talk to the conduit. Anyone know when it came back? Was there any reason it / the Senior Partners might not know that the Evil Plan was to bring Ilyria back at the point where Gunn talked to the conduit?
If they knew at that point, it made no sense for the conduit to refuse to help. The Senior Partners -- the Wolf, Ram, and Hart -- don't want Ilyria manifesting.
Note that this fact explains an otherwise baffling Eve scene. Remember that the Senior Partners seem to have no trouble finding her despite the protective symbols. Remember that Eve later says that she can only access information when the Senior Partners want her to do so.
This explains why she insists she knows nothing, why she reads clean to Lorne, and why, less than a minute later, she suddenly has information. The Senior Partners knew exactly where she was and gave her access to the knowledge they wanted Angel to have.
This may even explain the Conduit's treatment of Gunn. The Senior Partners have other ways to get information to Angel. They're probably a mite ticked at Gunn, since Gunn let Ilyria's sarcophagus in, and they don't want Ilyria around. And they probably don't mind the psychological torment he's undergoing.
The biggest problem was the dumb explanation of why Angel can't save Fred. He takes a 4 hour flight to the Well and is told that, with the sarcophagus, Ilyria could be drawn back, but would go through everyone in between sarcophagus and well, killing them. As Angel accepts responsibility for dooming Fred, it would presumably have been possible to make an 8 hour round trip before she died.
If that is indeed the case, why not bring Fred too? Or, given the caveman / astronaut theme, why not fly the sarcophagus directly above the Well? Or below it, as it runs through the Earth? I'm not saying the writers couldn't have set up believably the no-win situation they wanted, just that they didn't. And it would have helped if Angel's dialogue and actions set up the idea of his having actually betrayed Fred better.
B. The Wolf, the Ram, and the Hart
Okay, so Ilyria is here. And I liked a lot of the acting. I liked the little nod Gunn gave when Wesley stabbed him. I don't quite get what it was Gunn was signing, since he clearly wasn't being fired. Unless he was, but the writers changed their minds. Similarly, I thought that Wesley and Ilyria were going off together to work on her being human, with nary a word to Angel, and I thought that was neat. But, I digress.
Ilyria is dismissive of the Wolf, Ram, and Hart, for she remembers them before they became so powerful. They do not like that she is incarnate again, and, as I recall, Hamilton deliberately gives Wesley a hint about depowering an Ilyria about to go critical.
The problem is that it doesn't go anywhere from there. I find this unsatisfying. Here's an outline of what I would have liked.
Gunn is in a hell dimension because it's much easier to get beaten up than to put in hard, thankless work that contributes to The Cause, knowing it can never excuse what one has done. But that's a separate rant, and I digress. And Gunn's reaction to Hamilton's attempted bribe -- and the Gunn-Angel scene where Angel says that, yes, he does have to ask what Gunn did -- are both beautiful. I do wonder what the heck the point of Hamilton's offer to Gunn was, apart from showing the audience that Gunn won't make the same mistake twice is. I mean, the Senior Partners had no reason to think Gunn would accept after what happened to Fred, but okay, maybe they figured the pain would change Gunn's mind. Still, I am tempted to conclude that Hamilton made the offer so that Gunn would reject it. No textual support for that interpretation, I know.
Then, Ilyria rescues Gunn. I'm not sure I like the solution, but okay. It was a cool scene. Hamilton fumes about the damage Ilyria did in this pocket dimension and how much it's costing the LA branch of Wolfram and Hart.
At face value, I don't know if that makes sense. It didn't seem as if anything in that dimension got permanently destroyed. Perhaps Wolfram and Hart are annoyed that Gunn was released. They're almost certainly non-plussed that Ilyria's active on Angel's behalf.
Later, Hamilton tells Wesley outright that Wolfram and Hart don't want Ilyria there and gives him a hint for his Very Big Gun. I wonder if the hint was intended to help depower Ilyria, as Wesley did, or to kill her. I favor the killing her explanation.
I do wonder why Ilyria-in-Fred was so unstable. After all, Knox chose Fred as a vessel because she was so perfect. Could he have dealt with the problems Ilyria was facing? If not, it kind of makes him an idiot. If so, you'd think Angel & Co might find out how. And were Knox and Sparrow the only Ilyria cultists out there?
But, the main point is that the Senior Partners consider Ilyria a threat. What if this is because she actually knew something useful about them, something even my version of Lindsey didn't know? Ilyria and Lindsey could pool information to fight the Wolf, Ram, and Hart.
It is at this point that I fail to resist the urge to bring gender politics into my rant, on at least a superficial level.
1. Stomped Females
There's been some discussion about Ilyria getting depowered and then stomped by Hamilton. Is it because Ilyria's a woman? Yes, I know Ilyria's a god, a king, as much male or neuter as female, but the body is female.
I think this does matter, but that plot needs matter more. That is, Ilyria must get depowered. Otherwise, she becomes Walking Plot Device Lass. And Hamilton beats her up to give her motivation to help Angel that Angel will trust.
But the specifics could have been handled better. One wonders why Hamilton didn't simply kill Ilyria. One wonders why Ilyria's cultists wanted to have her inhabit a human body, if such is unstable.
I would have preferred if Ilyria had kept her powers until the fight with Hamilton. He could have spent time trying to get Angel and crew to destroy her. They could have spent time trying to pump her about Wolfram and Hart. Then, Hamilton shoots her with the Big Gun. It's intended to kill her, but only drains her. This is either because someone saves her, someone modified the gun earlier, or even weakened Ilyria can manage to destroy the gun. I prefer the last, as it shows that even a weakened Ilyria is not to be trifled with.
Then, Ilyria and Lindsey pool information, and Angel's Secret Plan to go after the Wolf, Ram, and Hart themselves goes into action.
2. Irredeemable Males
This is mostly pure rant rather than what-should-have-happened.
If you want the benefit of the doubt on Angel, your odds are better if you're female.
The odds aren't perfect. Women do die on the show. But they are more likely to be given a second chance when they act evilly.
The obvious first season contrast is Faith and Lindsey. The fifth season is Ilyria and Lindsey. Or Eve and Lindsey. Or Harmony and Lindsey.
Lindsey, we are told, is utterly irredeemable. Lorne says so, and it's not like his track record's bad. Oh wait, yes it is, especially in 5th season. Well, Angel says so, and he -- has an even worse track record.
Oh, but Lindsey's different from Eve, Ilyria, and Harmony. He's got a soul! Not like Harmony. He ought to know better.
Angel also has a soul. By his own admission, he's done more evil than Lindsey. He's backslid, as Angel, not Angelus, more than once. Indeed, the show practically depends on his being a nincompoop over and over. But, he's the star, so he's redeemable. I guess that's fair.
And, it is true that Harmony can't help herself. She doesn't have a soul. She can't reform. So, why does Angel let her go, but have Lindsey killed? Killing Lindsey is killing a human being. Killing Harmony is killing a soulless demon.
Unlike Eve, Lindsey is not a puppet for the Senior Partners to use at whim. Well, actually, Eve isn't one either, usually. And, her freely chosen actions are, well, those that support Lindsey. And herself. I don't see why she's more redeemable. Maybe she's just incompetent on her own, so it doesn't matter. After all, if I'd set up the assassination of someone's lover, it wouldn't strike me as bright to do what amounts to admitting, if not outright boasting, about it, and then turn my back on the person, offering to lead her out of the collapsing building.
And Ilyria killed lots of folks, but she has a certain innocence even so, unlike Jasmine. Oh, wait, Angel was willing to give Jasmine another chance. Actually, I understand that. Jasmine was, in her own way, trying to create a better world. Her motives weren't like Ilyria's motives for wanting to help Angel against Wolfram and Hart. Ilyria wanted to avenge her wounded pride on folks who were, at best, indirectly related to her getting beaten up, but hey, any chance to kick butt's a good chance. Sure, Ilyria might get bored of fighting on the side of good some day, but let's cross that bridge when we get to. Let's not prejudge this god in a woman's body.
Lindsay's stated reasons for helping Angel, after all, were so much less altruistic, right?